Tuesday, May 20, 2008

Sittin' Ducks protest second game of the season opener.

A controversial start to the 2008' season for two KWL teams; Sittin' Ducks and Transformers. Starting in the second inning of Game 2, the Transformers had a player leave the game with an injury. They continued to finish the game without the player or a replacement, but did not count the injured players at-bat as an out.

From the KWL rule book:
2.08: INJURED OR LEAVING PLAYERS: If a player starts the game, they must finish the game, or they are considered an automatic out when they are due up. If the Team has a substitute, they can sub him into the game in place of the leaving or hurt player.

During a 3rd inning rally, the injured player was schedule to bad with the bases loaded and 2 outs. Since the Transformers skipped over this players at-bats the rest of the game, it should have been an out and should have ended the inning with no more runs scored. The Transformers scored 5 runs that inning while only 2 runs should have counted. The score finished 6-5 in favor of the Transformers.

What is a Protested games?
If a rule is broken during a game and the broken rule helps the offending team to a win, a team can protest the game and have it ruled on by the League Committee.

Shouldn't Teams have to catch the mistake and call the other team on it during the game?
Ideally, Yes. However in this situation, the Ducks were playing with 3 players and were not keeping track of the other teams lineup. Often a team with have friends or family hanging around the bench area and it often makes it hard for the other team to notice if someone that was playing is playing again.

If a controversial play happens, a new team may not be sure enough of the rules to make the call on another team. As long as the Protest is submitted before Noon the next day (to the commissioner), it will be reviewed.

What does this mean?
The League Committee will review the protest and come up with a solution that is acceptable to each team. We understand that this may not have been done intentionally and could have been an honest mistake, but non the less benefited the winning team.

When will we know what the outcome is going to be?
The protest will be reviewed as soon as the Committee can converge on the issue, but could take up to a week for the result.

13 comments:

Transformers said...

It is up to the offended team to call out honest mistakes of the opposing team.

Second, it is the opposing team's responsibility to pay attention regardless of how many players they have.

Third, obviously the Transformers are a new team. They don't have every single rule memorized. As for the Ducks, they are veteran's of the game.

Fourth, excuses of family members and friends being a distraction aren't appreciated when the only two person's not on the team were children under seven. So they cannot be confused as to whether a person is playing or not.

(Oh, and by the way, the team player that was injured was quite noticed as a wiffle ball was chucked at his head)

So in conclusion, YES it is the other team's responsibility to call out faults, no matter the number players on the team.

Unknown said...

Chill dude. The Sittin-Ducks did have to protest the game because of the situation (but are not mad at the Transformers, nor taking it personally).

However it was the Transformers score-card that revealed the error. The Ducks didn't know what to do and handed it over to the commission for review.

Also, the Transformers have 2 veteran players returning this year as well and the Ducks only have 2 returning players this year - which makes the league "experience" on each team equal.

It is the responsibility of all members of all teams to follow the rules, of course, such "accidents" can and will happen.

It surely was an honest mistake (for both teams) - so why can't the teams come to an honest solution... like replaying the game from that point on, that way it is fair to everyone, as it wasn't fair to the Ducks that the Transformer's player was skipped from the first inning on, even though the player started the second game and the Ducks were not told when he decided not to play anymore... And, maybe it isn't fair to the Transformers that the Ducks didn't notice or say anything during the game...

The Ducks were not and are not upset at all, nor are they trying to be "sore losers" however the fact remains that the mistake DID benefit the winning team - regardless of the honesty of the mistake - a fair solution is needed here... fair to both the Transformers for the Ducks mistake, and fair to the Ducks for the Transformers mistake.

transformers said...

Alright, seriously, the transformers are and were a little offended. None of the players or team captain were notified of any discrepancy. (a call/email) Nothing.

The team found out by checking the stats online and seeing the TBD. So in reading over the rules saw the injured player rule. Then in the afternoon saw the posting on Tues. So yeah, there was a little animosity.

Then the smart comments in the post about family and friends hanging around the bench causing confusion. I little ill willed, don't you think?

So, we understand the need for review. There was an error. But the way this was handled was a little low. So in the future, common sense and courtesy should be used. That way confusion and bad attitudes can be avoided.

We are all here to play and have fun. So let's do that.

Brian Meyers said...

It is NOT the opposing teams job to manage and keep track of the other teams lineup. I would never expect another team to do that.

It was an honest mistake, but the mistake did change the outcome of the game. Thus, the reason for a protest.

Emails? Your team has email address? Can you please email me those :) Brian@jcroffroad.com

I have 1 contact number for your team, I contact you about anything league related, but I figured I could just wait, call when we had the resolution and explain it then. My Mistake, it won't happen again.

Example of Reason to protest games:
I pitch 6 innings the first game, win the game. Then I come in the last inning when we are in trouble, save the game for a win. Can I do that? Do most teams know? No I can't do that, per the rules. But most teams might not know that and might need to time to go home, check the rules and then they have the oppurtunity to call and get a correction for a broken rule.

Brian Meyers said...

Quote Transformers:
Then the smart comments in the post about family and friends hanging around the bench causing confusion. I little ill willed, don't you think?
End Quote Transformers.

They are not smart @ss comments. If a team has alot of players and some friends or family there, it can be hard for another team to figure out if someone is playing in the game or not. Ill willed, not at all. I encourage teams to have fans! But do understand that another team is not responsible for your teams batting order or how you manage that. New faces, New season makes it very hard for teams to know who is playing and who is not. This was not an any way meant as a knock to your friends or team.

monkeyevil said...

We have rules to make games fair.

The rules are posted on the site; while they may seem extensive, they are to cover most (or odd) situations before they happen.

I recommend every team print a set to bring with them to games. It may seem excessive for a "fun" league, but it means that all records and stats are as fair and unbiased as possible.

Unknown said...

The other post by "amber" was by me too.

I just want to add as far as the Transformers being offended - I have to ask - if the situation were reversed how would the Transformers want things handled?

What happened to us could easily happen to you... and we'd back you up in a situation like that! We just wanted the opportunity to play the rest of the game fair. We suggested that instead of the record being ammended Transformers 1-0, Ducks 0-1 as we thought it would be more fun.

I am sincerely sorry the Transformers were offended - all of you are so nice so no one meant to hurt you by any means at all --- but quite frankly us Ducks got hurt/offended too when we realized you had a player quit the game (leave the line up) without even bothering to tell us and it benefited the win (although certainly unintentional)...

Transformers stated above that your team is here to play for fun too, but you are implying that you'd like to keep a win that you may not have actually earned because you unintentionaly broke a rule and expect the Ducks not to be upset/hurt/offended just like you are? Please look at it from our prospective too - that hurts/offends us Ducks that you seem as if you are unwilling to make it right.

No one ever said the Transformers did anything wrong intentionally to win - what they did say was that a rule was broken by an honest mistake - it benefitted the winning team - so a decision was going to be made in regards to what to do.

I really don't think the Transformers have any more reason to be upset than the Ducks in this situation (and by the way, the Ducks were never upset or anger or personal - just wanted to finish the game fair).

If the Transformers were "hurt" or "offended" - well so were the Dukes - and we continue to be hurt by the attitude of the Transformers put forth here. The Ducks have only said we want to make it fair to both our teams - period.

kt

archie said...

As a new addition the league and not knowing all the rules and regs yet, I feel for the Sittin Ducks, and understand where they are coming from. With that said, it wasn't the mistake that was made, it wasn't the lack of attention to detail on both teams part. What hurt me as a player was that I had to read about it. I enjoy playing the sport and have a lot of fun! Furthermore, I have enjoyed the times that we have played the Sittin Ducks (both in practice and in game) and can't wait to play them again! It's not about the win for me it's about coming out and having a good time and spending time with others who want to do the same! I'm not here to point fingers, and I don't care who did what and who didn't do what. As long as future situations are handled in a better manner, history will not have a chance to repeat itself.
Shevonne and I both have talked about it this and it's not about the game being reviewed it's about having to read about it online before hearing from someone first! We both believe that the Ducks should have equal rights as all the other teams. They are entitled to a fair game! We hope that this doesn't have to happen again!

Smiles
Lisa

Transformers said...

JOSE says: blah blah blah everyone is misunderstanding everyone ...
No one is really mad at enyone so every one just let it go...!!!!!!!
And brian just think when u post not everyone will understand what u post so just allways think .. does this sound a bit to... and then post.

SO LET IT GO EVERYONE OR I WILL KILL U ALL IN UR SLEEP!!!!

HAVE A AWSOME AND BEAUTIFUL WEEK>>>

Brian Meyers said...

To be honest, I work very hard at the Commish of this league. It takes a lot time to make calls to everyone, send emails, make updates ect. I was trying to save myself some time by only have to call and explain the situation once and it is only WEDNESDAY!! We have known about the problem for like 1.5 days.

I would LOVE to have everyone's emails. We send out Email updates, news and other things. If your not getting them, then your getting 1/2 of the information involved in this league. (Send your address to Brian@jcroffroad.com to get on the mailing list.)

I am sorry that the situation came down the way it did, however, Shevonne you could have techically called me prior to even responding here. The phone goes two ways and this league is not my job, but something I volunteer to run...


My number is 269-806-6036, anyone is welcome to call me at anytime!

Transformers said...

JOSE says:SO MUCH 4 STOPPING SLEEP WELL...............

Transformers said...

arent we adults? why is the (comish) still keeping this going as far as to start posting players names even if he hasent even talk to the person named about it. how about growing up and let sleeping dogs lie...

said..Jose

monkeyevil said...

The website is how we convey information to 60+ people.

I have read Brians post maybe 6 times now, and I see it as presenting facts of the rules and the contested game and nothing else.